Prop 8 Pushback
I saw a video this morning showing the street demonstrations being conducted by people protesting the passage of Prop 8 in California. They were marching down Market St. in San Francisco and they interviewed one of the leaders of the march and he said that he was no longer “asking” for his rights, he was “demanding” them. Never mind that his fellow Californians had just decided that what he was asking for was not a right conferred on him by the Constitution. It was his “preference.”
They also interviewed a member of a Catholic organization that had helped to pass Prop 8 and he was commenting on the partnership that has grown between the Catholic Church and the LDS Church, in defense of pre-born life and traditional marriage. It is very encouraging to see people willing to take a stand on these important issues, despite the risks. As you may know, there have been threats made on the lives of LDS leaders in the effort to defend traditional marriage in CA. Some have had to have police protection around the clock as a result of the threats.
I am struck by the anti-democratic attitudes of some of the folks opposed to Prop 8. Give us want we want or we’ll go after you personally. They are willing to abide by a popular vote, but only if it goes their way. Grow up, kiddies. You lost in the “market place of ideas” and the people have spoken.
~~John Cronin~~
November 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
If this fight continues and proposition 8 stands; I wonder if this will help close the gap between evangelicals and mormans? This is a very big story that is being publicized and discussed at a national level. As of right now it is the Mormans who get the credit for the success of Proposition 8.
If this does help close the gap then I can only imagine it helps Mitt’s chances in 2012. The morman issue might very well be a non-issue like the non-existant “Bradley Effect”.
Now I recognize that the fight for Prop 8 might not heal the divide. I can’t help but wonder if it is a start.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
SED Read the post by 2theP, it seems to be helping. In the end we all need to stand together on common ground for the good of society.
This is really ruffling the liberals feathers, thus making conservatives like Romney a big target.
I don’t know about the future of the party. The ‘it has to be one of us faction’ is very much against Romney.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
David Frum on Rahm Emanuel: The man from Delta
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/11/07/david-frum-on-rahm-emanuel-the-man-from-delta.aspx
November 8th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7717278.stm
November 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Mark DeMoss, (Romney’s liaison with evangelicals) on the ONE OF US” topic:
“I’d like to see evangelicals look for competent, qualified candidates who share our values, whether or not they share our faith or theology. I believe it’s wrong to oppose a candidate because of his faith (Mitt Romney), and equally wrong to support a candidate primarily based on common faith (Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin).
Along the campaign trail I met so many people, including pastors and religious leaders, who could tell me only that their choice for president was a “good Christian,” or “one of us.”
This, in my view, is a dangerously inadequate approach to choosing our highest leaders. We don’t choose people for any other positions using this test; why would we apply it to one of the most important positions on the planet?”
November 8th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
A funny thing:
Protesters are planning to go to the LDS Temple in Oakland on Sunday to protest Mormons helping to pass prop 8. The funny thing about this that those of you who are not Mormon may not know is that LDS temples are not open on Sunday, they are only open Tues - Sat. When they go to protest there will be no-one there to hear them. Shhhh. don’t tell them.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/rally
November 8th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
A poll for Republican nominee for 2012.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/general/view.bg?articleid=1130852
November 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Yes Nate, last Sunday they protested at the Temple too. When I read about that I thought it was hilarious. They must have been thinking, “man, whatsup with these mormons? They don’t even go to worship on Sunday!”
Seriously though, this issue is already becoming a polarizing one in California, and in time it could become polarizing throughout the United States. I’m amazed at how disrespectful many of the protesting gays have become towards Christians and the democratic process. How ironic and hypocritical of them to harp on about hate crimes and the need for tolerance. The protesters have shown very little tolerance for those who think differently from them. We need to be careful not to fall to their level. I should go reread Elder Hale’s general conference talk, “Christian Courage.”
I read an interesting article about a guy named David Geffen-one of the wealthiest men in the U.S. and openly gay. He approached Obama four years ago after his speech at the Democratic convention. Geffen told him he should run for president and he would help him. With guys like Geffen behind Obama, it’s little wonder that the future president opposed Proposition 8. One can only wonder what Obama will do over the next four years in support of gay marriage.
November 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Jon-
I like your comment regarding tolerance. Yes that is very ironic. Are you in CA.? I will look up the talk you mentioned by Elder Hales. This issue is not going away.
November 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
No, I’m not in California any more but I do have family out there.
November 10th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
They were protesting our stake conference here in Seattle on Sunday. How pointless, WA passed a marriage amendment years ago. They like to vilify us when we have perfectly logical non-hateful reason’s for not supporting their cause. It shows a lack of maturity on their part.
November 10th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
A minority’s rights should never be voted on by the majority, never. This is a civil rights issue period. We will look back on this in 10, 15 years and see how wrong and ignorant this vote was. This was nothing more than people voting on fear, ignorance and hate, not knowledge and acceptance. By the way, the mormon church funded this ballot initiative with massive amounts of money, you cant have your one husband or wife but my religion says I can have several? Give me a break.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Proposition 8 and the ProtectMarriage Coalition: Unity in Support of a Common Value; and A Question About The Future
by: Lowell Brown at 09:43 am, November 9, 2008
http://www.article6blog.com/
November 10th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Johnny,
I don’t know who you are, but I only have one husband, and he has only one wife. And it was not just the LDS who donated money. (the members donated, not the church itself. No tithing monies were used). Other churches have worked on this as well. If it were just the LDS, this would have failed.
Get your facts straight.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Also, Latinos and Blacks tend to vote against gay marriage.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Chris, I never said this discriminatory initiative was solely funded by the mormons but if you don’t call $17.67 million that was contributed by 59,000 Mormon families since August to groups like Yes on 8 significant, what is?
Chris, those are the facts.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:12 am
I contributed.
I also have a dear friend (who I used to be married to) who is gay. We’re still friends. He understands why I donated, and why when I lived in CA, I worked for the original plan.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:20 am
To the Mormons like Chris who bankrolled the bigotry, religious discrimination is awful, as long as it is happening to them. — even though religious discrimination drove them from Missouri and Illinois in the 1830’s
November 12th, 2008 at 8:50 am
And Johnny,
We LDS believe in a living prophet. I know he speaks to God, and speaks FOR God. When he says marriage should be protected, I consider the source of his knowledge.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Chris protection? from another loving couple? really, protection from what?
November 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am
NOTE* I have posted 6 articles regarding Prop 8 since last Friday, Nov 7. They have been caught in the “filter” here and are awaiting moderation. I believe the term “same- _” is the trigger. It’s fruitless to spell out the word with spaces; I’ve tried 3 times, unsuccessfully. I would use the term “gay marriage” but I’m posting direct quotes and don’t have the liberty to change text.
CNNPolitics.com
Fri November 7, 2008
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/state.laws/index.html
November 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am
2 the P
Can you try to just post the links?
November 12th, 2008 at 10:25 am
http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=7811577&version=1&locale=EN-US
video on LA Temple / Tongans
November 12th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Tracey, here are some links (couldn’t include all of them due to the filter-hanging word):
http://www.protectmarriage.com/about
Conservative Christians lead push for Prop. 8
Matthai Kuruvila, Chronicle Religion Writer
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/15/MNNC13ELMC.DTL&type=politics
Video: Prop 8 Battle far from over (Mormons only church mentioned…)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/politics&id=6495050
Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Tuesday by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what schoolchildren might be taught about gay relationships if the ban failed.
“Everyone told me it could not be done, people do not care about this enough, you will be overwhelmed and you will lose,” said Maggie Gallagher, executive director of the National Organization for Marriage, a New Jersey group that provided seed money early this year to qualify the measure for the ballot.”
Campaign operatives attribute their success to the churches, which served as voter registration centers, phone banks and volunteer recruitment hubs.
Religious institutions also gave Proposition 8’s sponsors an avenue to a range of ethnic voters, including many Democrats, said Mat Staver, who heads the Florida-based Christian legal group Liberty Counsel.
Catholic and evangelical Hispanics and African-American Baptists stood alongside conservative white evangelicals in arguing for traditional marriage. Exit polls showed 70 percent of blacks supported the ban, a far higher percentage than any other race.
“This is an issue that … transcends political ideology, religious affiliations, races and time and history,” said Staver. “It brings people together who ordinarily wouldn’t be sitting at the same table together.
Perhaps the most crucial faith-based ingredient of the California campaign was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Mormon Church was invited into the coalition by San Francisco’s Roman Catholic Archbishop George Neiderauer, who previously spent 11 years as bishop of the Catholic diocese of Utah.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am
A great read…
Media Have a Proposition for Calif. Churches: You’re Bigots
by Brian Fitzpatrick
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
http://townhall.com/columnists/BrianFitzpatrick/2008/11/11/media_have_a_proposition_for_calif_churches_youre_bigots?page=2
Initial press reports last Wednesday and Thursday included statements by Prop. 8 supporters and the vital fact that a 70-30 majority of African-American voters pushed Prop. 8 over the top. By Friday, Nov. 7, however, news reports focused on “civil rights” street theater by fuming Prop. 8 protesters. The villains of the piece, Catholics, evangelical Protestants and especially Mormons, no longer were allowed to explain their views or even to defend themselves against ugly charges of bigotry. The pivotal support of black voters quickly dropped out of the story.
On Saturday, Nov. 9, the Los Angeles Times posted a story headlined “Anti-Prop. 8 protests spring up in California.” A photo showed angry protesters waving signs accusing Mormons of “hatred,” and proclaiming “I am a second class citizen.” The Times quoted several speakers at an anti-Prop. 8 rally, including a woman who called traditional marriage supporters “bigots, bigots, bigots.” Ignoring minimal standards of decency, not to mention journalist ethics, the Times gave Prop. 8 supporters no opportunity defend their honor.
A Nov. 10 AP/New York Times story, “In California, More Protests Over a Vote On Marriage,” focused on 1,000 protesters gathered Sunday outside Saddleback Church, the evangelical Protestant megachurch pastored by Rick Warren. The story described protesters as “advocates of equal rights for gay people.” A “volunteer” from the Human Rights Campaign, a gay pressure group, accused Saddleback of spreading “misinformation” and telling “obvious lies.”
November 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
To read complete articles, comments, and links go to: http://www.article6blog.com/
The ProtectMarriage/Proposition 8 Coalition: A Solidarity Report
by Lowell Brown at 07:24 am, November 11th 2008
John has been reaching out to the Evangelical community, asking about response to attacks on Mormons for their support of Proposition 8. While e-mailing with others today, he got the following unexpected response from Pastor Jim Garlow of Skyline Church in La Mesa, California. (Apparently someone, somewhere, forwarded John’s e-mail inquiries to Pastor Garlow.)
Thoughtyou might want to know some of what is happening re: defense of the LDS.
Iam hosting an event in which Catholics and Evangelicals are meeting with LDS officials so that we may affirm their role in the campaign and . . . discuss how to defend the LDS from the scurrilous attacks upon them, and the mob-like frenzy that is being stirred by those who cannot accept the will of the people on Prop 22 and Prop 8.
Secondly:Last Friday (November 7) I put out an email to 7,200 pastors on Friday - to speak boldly affirming the Mormons for their role, and to get their congregations to speak out in defense of the Mormons.
Thirdly:I was one of 4 persons signing a letter to the New York Times condemning their attack on the Mormons. On another note - I was on Dobson three times in last three weeks. He took pains to affirm the Mormons & their role [in Prop 8]. If I recall - he did it in either two of the three broadcasts - or possibly all three.
Blessings,
Jim Garlow
Look Out - They Are Getting Organized
by John Schroeder at 07:05 am, November 12th
I have assumed since the election last week that the protests in the wake of the passage of Proposition 8 would eventually run out of steam as the reality of the fact that the people of California spoke sunk in. To date, the protests have been relatively ad hoc affairs. But now they are getting organized. Which may also be a sign that the effort is slowing down as organization becomes necessary to keep it going. We’ll see tonight. But the protests are spreading throughout the nation.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
This is great and says it all.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#27652443
November 13th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
This issue will not go away. As a nation I do not believe we are ready to change the definition of marriage. If we were to hold a nation wide vote are country would come out in favor of traditional marriage.
Regardless of religious teachings, I think society feels that is it is best for society if children are raised with a male influence(father) and a female infuence(mother).
November 14th, 2008 at 10:46 am
As a nation we have changed the definition twice, once to allow blacks to marry blacks and then again, when we as a nation allowed blacks to marry whites. If there was a vote by the people on whether to allow this to happen back then, it would have failed. The majority should never vote on the civil rights of a minority, the courts got it right again.
You also say you believe we are not ready, I’m very curious to know when do you think we will be ready
November 14th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Tracey, I’m sorry, I failed to address your last point where you stated “Regardless of religious teachings, you think society feels that is it is best for society if children are raised with a male influence (father) and a female influence (mother).
So Tracey, by your words, not mine, sounds like you don’t approve of the marriage if a couple doesn’t choose or can’t have children, is that how you feel? Did you know that there are many straight couples that wed that fit into this category?
Marriage is not about having children Tracey, marriage is a legal state government document that protects two people who love and want to protect each other, a church ceremony is just that, it’s a ceremony.
You say regardless of religious beliefs, which I wish was the case, so, if it is the case, are you just prejudice?
November 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Johnny, I really don’t know why your here with us. It is about having children. Yes, some choose not to have children. And some, like my husband and I, cannot have them. So, we ADOPTED!
You can go to CT and get married. Go forth and marry. I’m not stopping you. But in CA. We stopped you. Deal with it.
November 15th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Chris, I’m here as the voice of many who are against hate, prejudice and discrimination. I’m glad to hear you adopted, that’s a very humane thing to do but you’re not answering my question; those couples that do not have children shouldn’t be allowed to wed since marriage is about children?
I can also go to Massachusetts, Canada, Spain, the Netherlands or a few other great countries (or states) but I’m not and we are dealing with it, in the streets, in the courts, around the country and the world, discrimination is not tolerable as a mormon you should know what that feels like.
By the way, I am a straight father of a gay son, a son that was married to his partner of 17 years, I’m fighting to insure that he has the same protections as my wife and I have had for over 45 years, so you deal with it, you’re going to have to.