Post Convention Open Topic
Wow! What a week we just lived through. One week ago today Sarah Palin was announced as McCain’s VP pick after weeks of speculation as to who was in, who was out, what strengths, what weaknesses various candidates might bring to the ticket. Since few people outside of Alaska knew much about Sarah, I was curious about how the public would react to her.
I said in a post several days ago that if the crowd responded to Sarah Palin’s introduction with a roar of approval and if there were numerous interruptions for applause, that it looked good for a Republican win this November. Well, we got the above in spades. Now the clock is running for Sarah to get up to speed on a host of issues in preparation for the questions that are coming from the press and for her debate with Joe “Why use 30 words when 10,000 will do” Biden.
She gives the impression of being very bright and a quick study, so I’d expect her to do very well.
This convention was as fun as any I can remember. The delegates looked liked they were having the time of their lives. I know I am biased, but we Pubbies seemed to be enjoying the experience way beyond what the Dems were. They gave the impression of confidence and satisfaction with the way the ticket finally shaped up.
Let’s all weigh in with our impressions of the speeches, the candidates and our prognostications for the outcome of the election.
~~John Cronin~~
September 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Before you leave your comments ( thanks John, this will be good!) there is ANOTHER POLL! Given another chance to vote for the Republican presidential nominee, now that you’ve seen Sen. John McCain in action, would you pick him or another candidate?
GO HERE TO VOTE FOR ROMNEY - he has a slight lead over Thompson(right-hand column):
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/9/4/seen-and-heard-huckabees-plus-size-msdnc-palins-muffin-man.html
September 5th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Correction: Mitt has a slight lead over McCain.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Thanks for the link 2tp. I voted for Mitt of course. Nothing has changed there!
Well I enjoyed both the conventions. I am relatively new to the political scene and have learned so much over the past 6- 8 months. Lots of ups and downs, that’s for sure.
I am proud of John McCain. He’s not a great speaker but he did a good job last night. I think since he’s known for not being the best speaker, that they should’ve put more exciting speakers (at least one) in the lineup last night to warm things up before he appeared. Tom Ridge was boring. Graham was boring… they needed to warm up the crowd IMO!
Nothing and no one can top Palin’s speech in my opinion. She did great but still has a lot to prove to the US.
Just still feel a great loss with Mitt not being on the scene anymore now. Yeah I know, maybe he’ll run again for 2012… but that’s four years away and hard for me to get excited about!
Just say NO to OBAMA!!!
September 5th, 2008 at 8:35 am
I have not forgotten McCain’s dirty tactics to win the GOP nomination. He used Huckabee, Crist, and Giuliani to beat off Mitt. He used Pawlenty and Romney (and others) as his attack dogs leading up to the last minuite VP pick. And now he’s very masterfully using Sarah Palin to win the woman/evangelical vote. Like she (or any other VP pick, Romney included) will really have any say in Washington-unless McCain keels over and dies while in office.
I don’t believe his speech for a minute that he’s in this for his country. I DID believe Romney when he stated the same thing. I’m amazed how many themes and one liners McCain has borrowed from Romney and Obama to “evolve” his message.
McCain has worked too long and too hard to get this far to allow anyone else to share the rule of the roost if he wins the White House. I’m convinced if he really was “Country First” he would know that his window of opportunity had passed-and he would have worked to help Romney into office instead of visa versa.
It is unlikely, at this point, that I will be pulling the lever for McCain in November. Palin is pretty impressive for a newbie, but she’s not running for President. I’m a conservative first, not a Republican first, and McCain does not share my values.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:42 am
2008 Republican Convention Slideshow:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-gopdaytwo-pg,0,619943.photogallery?index=1
September 5th, 2008 at 9:23 am
So I got bored watching Ridge and Cindy, so I made some Mitt 2012 bumper stickers and t-shirts =)
http://www.zazzle.com/conservativezazzle
Jon - I hear you. Although I am very impressed with McCain’s service to country, I too am concerned about what happenned in the primaries, and McCain’s conservative credentials. I’m not sure what I’m going to do. Giuliani’s speech has got me thinking maybe I should vote for McCain when I wasn’t even considering it before. I think Rudy made a very convincing argument, so I’m considering voting for McCain, but not sure.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Jon,
i’m sorry you feel that way.I think Mitt put it best several months ago when he said “theres no crying in politics”Another old adage is”alls fair in politics and war”.Mitt was my first choice but there is no way I could ever vote for obama.There is no comparison there.All mccain did during the primary was to do whatever it took to win and i take my hat off to him.In this great land of ours we are blessed to have choices and the party chose him.I am proud to say i supported mitt and still display my bumper sticker proudly right next to my new Mccain Palin sticker.He wasn’t my first choice but I’ll be able to live with myself pulling the lever for him in november
September 5th, 2008 at 9:28 am
FYI
Video “Alaska’s First Dude Speaks”:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=9600714&ch=4226716&src=news
September 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Forgot to mention I think Giuliani’s speech was the best speech of the convention, hands-down. I detest the idea of having a pro-choice candidate as the GOP nominee, but I have to admit Rudy’s speech was a grand slam!
Mitt’s was awesome too. And depsite my feeling like the Palin pick was a pandering move, she really impressed me with her speech too, and I think she represents the values many of us Mitt supporters share, not just in word, but also in deed.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Nice video of Mitt talking to reporters:
http://nyformitt.blogspot.com/
September 5th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Check out:
http://www.zerobama.com/
Someone beat me to it, and is squatting on the domain name.
I’m still not on fire about McCain, but the least of the Republicans is better than any Democrat, and like Mitt said in an interview yesterday, a middle of the road, independent leaning Republican is probably the only chance we have to win this fall. McCain made a great argument for himself this week, and his argument for actual accomplishment verses Obama’s rhetoric still lands a powerful punch.
I’ll take what I can get.
And I’ll repost my scale for those of us who are still on the fence (repeat after me):
Bad = Obama
Good = Clinton
Better = McCain
Best = Romney
Though we always hope for the best, we’ll settle for better. (Be realistic, folks, it’s not like we’ve never done that before
)
September 5th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Palin hit a grand slam on Wednesday, in my opinion. She’s convinced me she’s for real, and I’d take her in the White House over that senator from Illinois any day.
Democrats are so out of touch for attacking Palin. The “If you thought Cheney was bad, look at her” with a picture of Palin holding a rifle joke is just dumb. Just so sick of their tactics.
Late night and the MS media show their true stripes again.
Anyway, enough pouting. The Republican convention was amazingly successful. Sure we lost a day but it has been great nevertheless. Wednesday was a true powerhouse night - Romney, Giuliani, even Huckabee, and Palin. IMO, the best night of the convention by far.
As far as I’m concerned McCain couldn’t be any worse than Bush, and Obama would be far worse. Yeah we all know the tactics he and his supporters used during the primary. But how do you think McCain supporters felt after Bush and Co. used overly dirty politics to beat him in 2000? It’s politics, it’s wrong and it’s got to change, and hopefully it will in time. It certainly won’t change with Nobama. Probably not with McCain either but Palin and Romney provide hope for the future.
Personally, I would like not to see our economy worsen under a President Obama. Nor would I like to see all Congress and the Presidency led by Dems. If it happens, hold on to your hats for 4 years. And look for Romney or someone else (if he does not choose to run, which he might not, you never know) in 2012. If not, at least McCain can get the economy back on track and hopefully finish things in Iraq ASAP.
When you think about it, it’s only less than a year ago that Mitt had double digit leads in Iowa and New Hampshire. The nomination process is such a crapshoot. Seven months ago today was Super Tuesday, wow this has been a long election.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Mitt speaks to Massachusetts delegation:
http://www.necn.com/category/32/16951
September 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/213806.php
September 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Palin’s Credentials - via D. Frum NRO - part of an exchange considering whether Palin, regardless of style points, has the heft to serve in the highest office. Consider for a moment if you held, say 100,000 shares of Exxon. Would you be excited if an owner of a Gas station / or lease holder was named to the #2 spot of Exxon’s executive branch? Of course, you can make the case for Obama, which reveals the utter lack of choice for this election. Is this the best America can produce?
“An examination of Gov. Palin’s background — one that prudence demands be based on her fitness to serve as president — reveals: an undergraduate degree, obtained over six years and by attending four different institutions at five different times, with no graduate education; service on the city council and as mayor of a municipality that, almost anywhere outside Alaska, would at best be classified as a village or town, not as a city; short-term service as governor of the 47th largest state, one with an economy based on a combination of resource exploitation and federal largess unique in the Union; no public record of positions taken on matters of foreign affairs or on a wide range of domestic issues; and reports in the local press that have called into question her professional behavior at several stages of her public service career, whether demonstrated by questionable personnel decisions or by questions of ethical impropriety. I find these qualifications to be sorely lacking and I believe her selection — especially, as has been reported, its seeming suddenness — to have been an ill-considered decision on Sen. McCain’s part, especially given the large number of much more highly qualified people available to join him on the Republican Party ticket. …
Please allow me to agree with your Air Force officer correspondent, who is absolutely correct when he writes, “In the end, no one can be prepared for … presidential power and responsibility until they are in the role due to its dynamic and unpredictable nature.” I would respectfully suggest however, that in the end we must base such a decision not simply on potential, but on the careful, thoughtful and well-informed examination of education, experience and temperament.”
September 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Nice quote, Stephen. Romney fits the bill.
Unfortunately, this was a choice for VP, not president. This was a campaign season political calculation, not the best qualified choice for an eventual 2nd in command. Interestingly, however sadly, it may work.
The vast majority of the electorate votes form over substance, so if the Republicans can craft a good narrative around this, they will swing many voters to the ticket. The Democrats haven’t helped themselves at all fanning the “inexperience” flames, flames that blacken the hand that fuels the fire as much as any others.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Hahahaha!!!
That linked story on “Walter Reed” is hilarious. My wife was wondering what the heck that the building was too.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
SMILE ALERT!
Remember the first McCain/Palin rally after the VP choice was announced - the one on Friday, Aug 29, in Dayton, Ohio? You know, the one where Huckabee introduced Mitt as his “FRIEND and colleague?” Check out SECOND photo on this website. Remember that Mitt was obligated to give a stilted sort-of half-hug pat-on-the-back to Huck? Notice how McCain and Palin are relieved/happy/smiling that Huck was playing nice and Mitt was giving the man-pat.
John and Sarah were spared the back-side view. Major WEDGIE! Don’t know how Huck gave his entire speech with his pants bunched… well, you know. Maybe the “fix” would have been worse than “leaving well enough alone.”
http://www.asoftanswer.com/2008/09/03/romney-rules-out-2012/
September 5th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Frozone,
I agree it may work to win the election, yet what matters more to me is what happens after the election. Image and personality are wonderful, but . . .
September 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Another reader on NRO / Frum writes:
“Been following the Palin debate in your inbox. It actually brought up a point that I think drives people like me nuts - since when is elitism a bad thing in itself? Somewhere in the last few years, the GOP has suddenly decided that having an education from Harvard or an Ivy League School is a bad thing? The party that recognized the idea that we should strive towards a meritocracy now suggests that demanding those qualifications or skills makes you a snob?
I liked the Mitt Romney who governed MA as a pragmatist (especially some of the crazies in power there), but did it strike no-one else as absurd that this man (Harvard MBA, blue-blooded family) who’s tried to turn into a walking caricature of a conservative has to bash “East-Coast liberals” and MA consistently to get anywhere (to the electorate’s credit, they recognized the phoniness) ? Moreover, it strikes me that NR isn’t going to move its headquarters to Podunk anytime soon from NY- are you guys thus “elitist”? Bluntly, why are shots at Massachetus liberals and San Francisco okay, but someone saying the same thing about the “heartland” or the South makes them snobs?
Look, I’m not an ideological conservative type GOP-er; never will be (gun to my head, I’m a classical liberal, as the Economist might describe it)- as your previous correspondent pointed out, I don’t see how 2 gay men affect my relationships with someone I love in any way (hell, improves my odds). The GOP have every right to fall back on this populist-heartland schtick, and I have every reason to ignore them until they actually have something to offer.”
September 5th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Another NRO reader asserts that conservatism is a way of life not a political philosophy. Is this what identity politics is?
“What you don’t get and also some others there at NRO is conservatism is a way of life not a philosophy. It’s not just ideas and positions, it love of your God and country. It’s self sacrifice and adherence to moral principles. I know I’m a bible thumping social conservative, but so is the largest part of the Republican party. She is one of us and that’s something you may never be or understand. Good luck in your writing and your career and maybe one day you will get the emotional bond with your God, country and life based on values larger than ourselves.”
September 5th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Stephen,
Yep.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/mccains_speech_backdrop_was_us.php
September 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
A good read:
Romney and Gingrich Subtly Eye 2012
http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080904_1743.php
September 5th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Mitt still working it in Minnesota!
GOP TIPS HAT TO MITT ROMNEY
By Hillary Chabot - Friday, September 5, 2008 -
Former Gov. Mitt Romney will kick off the first meeting of the Republican National Committee after delegates formally appointed Sen. John McCain as their presidential pick.
Romney will address all RNC members at a meeting scheduled for 9 a.m. this morning, a nod to all the hard work the former presidential candidate has done for GOP presidential nominee Sen. John McCain and the party.
“He was well-received at the convention and he raised a lot of money for the party, and that’s being recognized,” said Republican analyst Rob Gray.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117116
September 5th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Its kinda pointless to speculate on anything till after the 08 election…but fun so my take is…if mccain wins than i think romney and mccain would both be fools if romney isn’t named sec of treasury. I think romney in that spot in a mccain/palin admin is probably more vital than romney as a veep under mccain. If mccain doesn’t offer that spot or romney doesn’t want it(dumb and dumber), than romney should take an ambassadorship if he has any desire to run for president again but has no interest in running for any other office…from an ambassadorship, i could see a palin/romney ticket in 2012, more so than i could see romney winning the gop nomination in 2012 if mccain wins this fall. If mccain loses this fall than the field is clear for romney to run in 2012. The other options are for romney to run for the house or senate in utah in 2010 or 2012 depending on if bennett or hatch retire and huntsman isn’t running for it. As for other openings, i’d also bet john kerry would leave the senate for an obama cabinet job and unfortunately ted kennedy’s health probably will create another senate vacancy in MA. Yet, it would be dumb for romney to run for either of those…if he wants to run for something in MA, pretty dumb idea, he should run for his re-election to gov of MA in 2010 but the only reason to do that would be if he doesn’t ever want to run for prez again, no need to risk a L and been there done that, so it doesn’t add up to do it…Thus to sum it up, if mccain wins, romney should be sec of treasy, if mccain loses, romney should run for prez again in 2012, pretty simple.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122057381593001741.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
We all loved Mitt and were awed by his executive ability. I see him as an excellent VP choice in 2012. He could really help shore up the “competence” of a Palin without McCains steady hand.
One of the best write up of Palins’ fight against the Alaskan oil industry. This is a “just the facts” style article that I think says so much more about her then all the “hype”. I’m usually very cynical but even i have felt a few twinges of hope for the conservative future of America when i read about leaders like this.
Fact is Mitt’s style of political shtick didn’t play that well with enough Americans. Mitt is just so opposite of most of us hes attractive, rich, and innocent. Sadly the rest of us about the polar opposite of that and felt like a fish out of water trying get read on him. Thats my best guess what happened anyway. And its a problem that wont go away in four years.
Of course none of that matters once Israel attacks Iran, then Iran suicide bombs wall street and Venezuela shuts off its oil to us. China dumps its trillions of dollars on the market all at once and America is crushed under the weight of its own greedy dependencies of the last half century.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
shiggz!! Wow!!
Is that last paragraph your prognostication of the potential Obama presidency?
September 5th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
That WSJ article is pretty good. Don’t be fooled by the media/DNC/Obama/MSDNC spin, Palin is more like a pit bull than her lip stick belies
September 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
With Obama it is all to plausible. It is why i have been for Mitt from the beginning. I think he truly could have taken on those underlying fault lines and reversed their flow. With Palin maybe McCain (economic illiterate) could address them. She showed some of ingenuity with creative solutions just like Mitt used talk about.
America less then one generation ago was the worlds largest creditor nation now we are the largest debtor nation. And its growing fast.
http://www.pgpf.org/about/nationaldebt/
Every man woman and child in America owes china and japan and a few others 175k each! What will they do when it looks like we will financially collapse and never be able to pay it back? They might show up as the repo man and who could blame them.
We Americans massively overestimate the stability of our economic and societal structures. Modern civilization is stomach deep. The police to citizen ration is 1:955! They couldn’t control chaos. With 99% of people not having more then a week or two’s worth of gas or food a widespread minor interruption in supply would cause societal collapse almost immediately. Nearly none of us live even within a thousand miles of where our food is grown or where out water comes from.
If we had trouble who would come to our help Mexico? Canada? Europe? Even if they had the will none of them could help us we are too large compared to them. Mix this with our very small military many of whom are on other continents and you have a recipe for disaster.
Quick name a civilization from history that didn’t collapse?
September 5th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
My gosh the woman can skin a moose! You KNOW that this is going to come in handy in Washington!
Seriously, this is the reincarnated Reagan that we conservatives have been praying for all this time. And I’m sure that McCain didn’t want Reagan back. God works in mysterious ways, huh?
September 6th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Open forum? Okay, does anyone else think that Qaddafi looks just like Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones? Separated at birth? Just a thought.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
To Dave Stentfeld: Dave I’m not so sure what you mean when you say wining. One of the most bigoted elections in american history and you call it wining. The republican and others have used and abused mormons for ages and now more than ever. I think it would be more principled to take seriously into account when voting. I personally will not vote for a man who picked Sara Palin because she is an evangelical and not a Mormon. Thousands of evangelicals were writing the McCain camp, saying don’t dare pick Romney. Romney could have helped in all the key states, more than anyone. Plus he is most qaulified and was McCains top choice for months. Romney himself said in his speech about religous freedom that if he looses this race because of his faith so be it. Ofcourse he will wisely play that down, but we don’t have to robotically and cultishly follow Mitt like he
’s inspired and perfect 100 percent of the time. It’s time Mormons send a message. You will loose every western state if enough Mormons don’t vote and thereby loose the election. It could change politics forever.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Aaron: Amen!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I DON’T LIKE BIGOTS . ( THE END )
September 6th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJsxNwAmLT4
Mitt Romney the most qualified candidate since Ronald Reagan lost because he is a Mormon . Anybody have doubts ?
September 6th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Evelio, I guess that I disagree or “doubt” a bit (as always on this forum). For example: Romney did say that he would be stronger than Ted Kennedy on gay rights (yes, I know what he did while in office, however he did say it). Romney also said that assault weapons should be banned (even the Democrats following the 1994 mid-term massacre learned their lesson on this issue). Romney said that he was pro-choice (it’s on tape). Now, on each of those issues, and perhaps more, he sings the syren’s song to conservatives. Yes, I believe him, but, no, in light of Senate Majority Leader Reid’s performance, I do not doubt that many–including evangelicals–doubt that Romney is sincere. I can see Mitt’s current strategy (aptly demonstrated on Wednesday). That is, he will spend the next four years “proving” that he has had a sincere change of heart and that he is truly the ultimate Reagan paradigm. Did mormonism have anything to do with it? Well yes, but that’s always going to be the case to a lesser and lesser degree. But anti-mormonism was not a factor as far as putting Romney “over the top” with voters. Just my .02
September 6th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Andrew , I respectfully disagree with you , I am also in a minority of minorities ( a latino , Cuban republican ). I have seen , heard and tasted bigotry all of my life , because of my heritage and also because I am a Republican . I believe I can smell a bigot a mile away , and the ONLY way Huckabee and the evangelicals were to beat Romney was to attack him on his religion , (they have said it , and I have heard them) . I have gone in the Reverend Huck’s many web-sites and seen the filth these people were throwing at Romney and the LDS throughout the campaign . Have you ever changed your mind about anything in your life ? I have , In my youth I participated in three abortions of my babies with three different women , and I didn’t care , I now wish and pray that God will forgive me . I have done many other things in my life that I will always be ashamed of , but I believe that I have changed . I became a Christian 2 years ago , and Jesus rewarded me with a second chance of life with my wife who was battling Brain Cancer.
Yes Mitt Romney changed his mind about many of the things as you pointed out , but when it came time to act on what he said , I believe he went against the Polls in Massachusets and followed his deeply religious beliefs .
John McCAIN has recently changed his mind on drilling , is he a flip-flopper ? He says he changed his mind on immigration , is that politics or what he really believes ?
Bush’s tax cuts ? McCAIN has changed his positions but it’s not what he believes , Romney has changed his positions because of what he believes .
ROMNEY 2008
September 6th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Thank you, Evelio. I appreciated your post as I always do. I have been very sad lately at our choices for POTUS. I can’t vote for McCain because of his dirty tricks during the primary, and I won’t vote for Obama because I think he’s dangerous. Now, I am depressed that Mitt will never be POTUS and that is primarily a result of antiquated, ignorant, and cynical bigotry. It has all been very depressing.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
http://www.helium.com/items/679675-religious-bigotry-against-mormons-shown-in-attacks-on-mitt-romney
Andrew , These are just a few of the many web-sites that cite bigotry against Romney .
Facts are a funny thing …………
September 6th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Douglas , I agree with you , It looks like the only way for Mitt Romney to be President of the United States is for McCAIN to lose to Obama , but if a black man has a chance to be the president of the United States , you would think that a Mormon would too . We will have 4 years to educate the non-bigoted America about the LDS .( Adds , magazine stories , paid commercials , etc…. ( most of bigotry is ignorance ) I am not going to vote for Obama but I will have to hold my nose to vote for McCAIN.
September 7th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Wouln’t it be ironic if the press started attacking Sarah Palin on her religious beliefs ?
To evangelical bigots ( only the bigots ), they might just do the same to you guys .
September 7th, 2008 at 9:59 am
McCain, Obama ignoring alien issue, advocate says
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/236489/
We all know where Romney stood on illegal immigration - an issue so vital to our nation’s security. Illegal aliens were not mentioned by either party’s Pres/VP candidates during their speeches at the Repub or Dem conventions. I want to hear specifics from McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden on how they plan to build and enforce a REAL border, what to do with the millions of aliens in America, their opinions on “anchor babies” given automatic U.S. citizenship, how they would handle the increasing violence on the US/Mexican border due to Mexican organized criminals attempting to establish a significant presence in the U.S., and their opinions on the incarcerations of U.S. border agents Jose Alonso Compean to 12 years in prison and Ignacio Ramos to 11 years.
Our past and present methods of dealing with our borders are a real and present threat to every American. The United States can not pretend for four more years that these issues are going to be solved without making DRASTIC changes.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Our past and current methods of enforcing our borders are woefully ineffective. Our border patrol agents are to be commended, but our cellophane borders and the perpetual inundation of illegal aliens are a real and present danger to every American.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
2THEPOINT , You sooooo right , could we have our first Mexican-American president in the near future ? Probably , our way of life is being attacked from all borders and our leaders seem to welcome them with open arms . You are correct, none of the candidates have said word one from our biggest threat , illegal immigration . I am a Cuban , but an American first , close the borders now or face the consequences later.
I hope that Mitt Romney again leads the charge in the illegal immigration fiasco , this could be a good catapult to the Presidency on 2012 .
September 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Evelio Perez, being able to “smell” bigotry is not a persuasive argument (if I might be so bold). In the South most of us white folks here are aware that–due to their past experiences–many minorities “smell” discrimination where no discrimination really exists. It’s a natural, human reaction. So based on my own experiences, I do have a bit of a jaundiced view on the subject of being able to smell bigotry. As for what you see on the websites: please understand: a website does not give a broad view of the electorate. Website posts are composed primiarily of people who feel strongly enough to post their views–in other words, “bigots.” LOL (No, I’m not saying that all posters are bigots, just that bigots are more likely to be posters). Concerning McCain’s flip flops–yeah, he’s flipped and flopped and that’s part of why I CANNOT STAND MCCAIN! So, your McCain analogy actually underscores my point. I’ll give an example: McCain now says that he does not favor amnesty for illegals and he wants the borders secured first. Sounds ince, but who really believes him? Not I, and you shouldn’t either. On the other hand, this same reasoning might work for gun owners who heard Romney change his position on the Second Amendment (or abortion, etc.) If they think that Huckabee’s been more consistent on abortion rights, or gun rights, then they might choose him over Romney who SAYS the right things on these two subjects–but only recently.
In sum, Evelio it is a disservice to claim to smell bigotry, because this claim only functions to avoid having us look introspectively to see if the true problem might just lie within ourselves.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:10 am
“ince” should read “nice.” Sorry
September 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Andrew , lets say that I imagined all of the bigoted comments aimed at me and my family , including getting my butt kicked because I was a ” F—–g Cuban ” . So I guess I didn’t really smell it ( play on words ) , but I am sure not hard of hearing .
I would dare you to find anyone ( a politician ) who has never change his position , If you do , I would probably not believe him . But I will continue to say , It’s not what you say , it’s what you do that counts .
ROMNEY 2012
September 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Can’t do it folks. I watched, I listened and heard nothing new. Same faces, same speeches. If we want our party back, we need to so some soul searching. I think for the next 4, we’ll be doing just that. I can’t support this ticket. I just can’t do it. I don’t like being told that this conservative needs to sit down, shut up, and vote the way we tell you to vote. Oh, and please write the check. It’s for the ‘good’ of the country. Pickles it is! I’ll never vote scared again. I can’t support this ticket. McCain has used too many and burned too many bridges with his ‘friends’ and others, to want him near the buttons.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Evilo,
I’m standing next to you on the smell test. My husband is from Argentina. 1 of my children is African American, 2 are half African American and half PuertoRican, 4 are hispanic from Mexican decent (one being born in Mexico). I have been in wards with family members, and the ward treated my children and my nephews/neices much differently. Birthday parties? not invinted. neighborhood BBQ’S? Same. My kids were left out. We moved out of the ward and found a nice place with a ward that resembles the United Nations. I know bigotry, I too can ’smell’ it. It exists.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Evelio,
I’d like to know exactly WHY her religion is NOT an issues? Banning books? I want some answers. I won’t get any, of course. Her pastor for most of her adult years, is a true rightwing nutter. Why isen’t her faith one open for intense examination and ridicule? HUMMM?
I still can’t vote for this. Regardeless of if she announces tomorrow she’s converting to Mormonism to garner the Utah, AZ, NM, ID, CO, WY and MT vote.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Evlio,
You don’t have to hold your nose to not vote for Obama. You don’t have to vote for the candidate, you can ‘write’ someone in or you can vote for some obscure 3rd party. I cannot ‘reward’ Mccain with my vote. I refuse to do what his mom said to hold my nose and vote for McCain. I want my party back. And the only way to get it back is to stop the slow leak by sinking the ship, then raising up a new, stronger ship. Palin is not Regan re-incarnate as some suggest. She is not Maggie Thatcher with an western accent. She is a heartbeat away from the presidency, and McCain is 72. I can’t put her there. I won’t. I don’t trust Mccain, and I don’t care for Madame Palin. I want the party back. 4 years wandering in the wilderness will be fine. We’ll learn a lot, we’ll grow a lot. And we’ll emerge a stonger and much more united party - sans the bigots.
September 7th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Andrew, I respectfully disagree. I was an ignorant white guy too who thought, at times, that minorities were just overly sensitive. It wasn’t until I married a minority that I developed a keen sense of smell for bigotry. It is real and it’s out there and many people do not even realize that they are doing it. Until you’ve been there you really will never understand.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Evelio, I believe that you have just proved my point. Having been in my share of fights during my youth, I KNOW that when the adreniline is flowing, you want to call your adversary an f—ing “whatever.” If he’s black, then the desire is to add the N-word after the f—ing. If he’s hispanic, fat, red-headed, or whatever, the instinct is to insult using whatever physical characteristic that lends itself to your anger. BUT that does not necessarily hold sway on how such such a kid would act as a rational adult. I know that I’m not a racist (trust me here) but I have in the past used the N-word in connection with a fight against an african-american. Why? Because I wanted to insult him! Not because I thought the white race was superior. I wanted to hurt him verbally.
But this is too far afield anyhow. My original point is that we should beware of using the crutch of discrimination because even IF TRUE, it still acts to preclude you from conducting that precious introspection that so many of us need.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
When people use discrimination as an excuse it either leads to hate or victimization or both. Discrimination happens to everyone every where at some point in there lives. To make my point just go to Saudi Arabia and wave that American passport…watch how many people either curse at you…walk away or pull out their guns.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Yes we all know Bigotry…we all experience it at some level…people, people, people! Didn’t we just go through a roller coaster of a ride trying to deal with the Bigotry of this election toward our Man Mitt. I don’t know where this topic started in the comments but I feel for you and your Children Chris. Thats terrible especially in the Church.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Jon, what in my post makes you think that I haven’t had the exact same experience? Please, please guys, you must stop making unshakable assumptions for that is the height of bigoty. If you were married to an african american, for example, you must know that many, many african americans will readily admit a racist prejudice against whites–especially in the event that an african american girl marries a white guy (ask me how I know).
If you are looking for bigotry you certainly will find it. Just the same as if you are looking for a fight. You can find one of those too. Your wife and family might remember this.
Please try this for a week a write back on your experience: ask your minority wife to FORCE HERSELF to assume that each time she feels slighted or discrminated against–the slight or discrmination was not the result of her minority status. Many friends and family members of mine tried the same thing and with wonderful results. They were suprised at how THEIR OWN outlook changed! Also all minorities must remember, just because some are racists; it doesn’t mean that all, or even a majority, are racists (for proof, just look at Obama who appears poised to win the Presidency).
A few years ago, I remember being in a courthouse at the moment the OJ verdict was announced. In the court clerk’s intake section there were about 90% african-americans there employed. Suddenly one of the clerks jumped up and said “NOT GUILTY!” (by a mostly white jury, I might add), and EVERY SINGLE ONE of the other african americans jumped out of their seats, and they began to dance in a circle saying “Not guilty, not guilty, not guilty.” As they danced, I heard through the glass window a few references to “their white asses” and “watch the crackers crumble.” I just stood there, dumb-founded along with the few white and hispanic clerks. A hispanic clerk whispered to me: “he just got away with murder and they’re acting like it’s a party!”
In connection with this I want to say that, yes, blacks can be as prejudiced as whites. Second, I want to say that I try not to allow the reaction of a few clerks to “color” my views of all african americans. Third, I also feel that the joy those clerks felt was soon replaced by the sober thought that one of theirs had gotten away with the savage murder of a beautiful woman, leaving small children in his bloody wake. Did OJ get away with murder because someone used the N-word? We will never know for sure. But we do know that the right path is to get over the small people on earth and seek out the vast majority that will treat you fairly. Sitting back and complaining about racism or anti-mormonism will only lead to obfuscating the truth about ourselves. Just ask OJ.
September 8th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Gov.Mitt Romney lost primary and V.P. because of bigotry. Period.
Sarah was pregnant before she got married, her daugter is pregnant age 17 before she married. If she was a mormon or other faith, those evangelicals would start riots. Their moral issues and commonsense will change depen on who they are talking about.
Yes, there are some nice evangelicals & Mormons, there are some not so nice evangeliclas & Mormons.
You can’t judge a gruop of people just knowing some but I must say most evangelicals are bigotry toward Mormons. When I asked my evangelical friends about election, 100% people said they won’t vote for Romney because he is a mormon.I asked Mormon friends same question and answer was many. (Romney got most)It seems to me that Mormons don’t have bigotry toward any other religions. That is my opinion living in Oregon, U.S.A.
I am from Japan and yes, I have experienced some discrimination in U.S.included my accent. Some discriminations and bigotry exist in Japan too…
A legal immigrant
September 8th, 2008 at 3:56 am
Andrew, I believe that you are not a bigot , but until you walk in our shoes there is no way that you will ever know bigotry , unless you are black , asian, latin , or MORMON .
September 8th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Andrew,
i’ve worked for Reagan at WH comm unit. Met him many times. Palin is NOT reagan. She’s NOT Thatcher (somplace I worked during that time period). this is just putting lipstick on the elephant. We got screwed big time. McCain screwed over his friends and now were once again being told to sit down, shut up, donate our cash and vote. This is truly the election of low standards. There are many of us that are revolting and paying the GOP back, and hopefull the next four years of wandering in the wilderness will give us time to regroup and take our party BACK. I can’t hold my nose and vote. I did that with Bush. If I can’t for for someone I feel good about, then I either have to find someone I totally disagree with and vote that ticket, or not vote. I won’t vote for this ticket. Top to bottom, it’s bad rice.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:10 am
EVELIO
And some have the triple whammy! An asian from Chile, who immirgrated here and is LDS. I’ve met many asian-hispaics!
I don’t think Andrew here is a bigot either. But please, this GOP party has taken what is dear to us, and ran it intothe mud. My ‘fellow’ GOP ‘ers felt it was their mission waive what is sacred to us, for the world to misinterpert and not understand. THIS is why I can’t vote for McCain/Palbum. McCain accepted the Bigotbrigade’s threats. Now it’s time to put the party out to wander for a few years to regroup and purge the bigots. We’ll be a better and stronger party for it. Take the Leap. Don’t vote scared. Vote 3rd, write in or don’t vote. But Voting for McCain is not an option for me and my family.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:14 am
CH, and you’ve most likely noticed the double standards going on. So long as you worship in the ‘right’ church, everything else in you life is overlooked. So long as a MORMON is not anywhere near the office. I want these types OUT of my party. I’m quite serious that this one issue is bigger than anything.
September 8th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Andrew, I was not aware I made any reference to YOU being a bigot. In fact, that had not even crossed my mind. My point was that many of us in the majority are blissfully unaware that bigotry still exists today. If you thought I was accusing you of being a bigot, you have misunderstood me.
And no, you don’t have to be looking for bigotry to find it. Bigotry is alive and well and does not have to be sought after.
Let me give you a small example of blatantly ignorant bigotry. We were at the grocery store and I noticed that the lady in front was writing out a check for almost $50. It was obvious the clerk was not a friend or family member but she just told the lady not to worry about it when she went to take out her I.D. Then my wife purchased about $14 worth of items and the lady demanded an I.D. and then wanted a phone number. Getting a little warm under the collar, I pointed out to the lady that the previous woman’s bill amounted to more than three times the amount and she didn’t take any I.D. or personal details. The lady turned bright red and just realized what she had done. See, the thing is, many people don’t even realize what they are doing it’s so ingrained. Unfortunately, many times the bigotry is extremely subtle, and not nearly as easy to point out to the bigot as in this instance.
And no, you are wrong about her looking for bigotry. You are WAY OFF THE MARK my friend. My wife does a terrific job blowing off bigotry because it has happened to her so much. She does NOT go out of her way to find it, in my opinion, she actually goes too far in the other direction. If I hadn’t been with her at the store that day, she would have just given her phone number and forgotten about it.
Not every minority thinks the rest of the world is out to get them. As I said before Andrew, until you experience it you never really will understand.
September 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
How do we know that Sarah was pregnant when she got married?? I keep “hearing” this but have read no cocumentation.. Anyone have any??? k
September 9th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Sarah and her husban were married on August 29, 1988.
Their first son was born on April 20, 1989.
It is possible their son to be born between those time after they got married.
But it doesn’t change my point!
Yes, we need to be careful where you get information…….